The Digital Utopia Podcast Episode #29

 

Frank: [00:00:00] It's not enough to just say, yeah, I know I got to provide a certain number of MQLs, and I know that number cold. And sales knows how many they have to close, and they know that number cold. And service knows how many they have to retain, and they know that number cold. That's not enough to just know them KPIs and metrics that bubble up to the end objective. That's great. I hope your teams know that, but that's not enough. You have to know why and how those things are going to happen. 

You are listening to The Digital Utopia Podcast, a resource dedicated to helping B2B leadership and executives gain clarity and focus in a chaotic marketplace. 

Hey gang. Welcome to the Digital Utopia Podcast, Episode 29. I'm your host, Frank Cowell and I'm joined by my co-host:

Joe: [00:00:44] Joseph Freeman

Frank: [00:00:46] Joe. Today, we're talking about buy-in.

Joe: [00:00:48] Buy-in, yeah! How do you foster buy-in? We're trying to figure out, you know, from your leadership team, if you decide you like the idea of RevOps and want to install it, how do you get buy-in from the leadership?

Frank: [00:01:01] Yeah, it's an important one because now when we talk about RevOps, it's a big mindset shift. There's certainly a lot of tactical things that you have to do differently. 

Joe: [00:01:12] Well, I honestly think if everything, it is a big mindset shift, I actually think that's all. It really is. The tactics, if you get into it, you start breaking apart. The tactics of employing RevOps. They're not much different than marketing and sales and the things that you've always done. They're just done with a different lens. 

Frank: [00:01:28] I think that's a good point because I think one of the things that I've been talking about lately, in fact, did a workshop this morning on this very sentiment, which is, I think a lot of people can easily call BS on RevOps because when you dig in, it's like, Hey, we're just doing the same things. 

Joe: [00:01:46] We're already doing that campaign.

Frank: [00:01:47] Which is, we're just going to say, we're just calling it a different department name. So I think there is the possibility for people who don't.

Truly dig into the sentiment of it to just call BS on it and say, yeah, we're doing all this stuff. 

Joe: [00:01:58] Okay. For new listeners, give us the ten-second - "What is RevOps?" and why actually is it different than what they are already doing? 

Frank: [00:02:05] Yeah. RevOps is about the alignment of marketing sales and surface across process platforms and people.

So you can maximize your organization's revenue potential. And ultimately what you're looking to do is create a culture of revenue in your organization. Now, why is that different compared to what you're doing? The activities may not look a whole lot different, but chances are, they're not aligned. And when they're not aligned, that means you're process isn't as efficient. When I say process, I mean like they're magical process, right? Your macro funnel of your business. If that's not aligned, then it's not efficient. If it's not efficient, you're not maximizing revenue potential. You're leaving money on the table. That's. The moral of the story here is you're leaving money on the table.

And if you're trying to make a vision come to life, you're just putting the realization of that vision out further, further. 

Joe: [00:02:57] Yep. Yeah. So there are two things I think that go into getting full buy-in. I think, first of all, you need everyone to understand why you're doing it, because if you just come in and say, we are doing this and these are the changes that need to happen to make it happen. We've seen it time and time again, you get pushback from, from marketing leaders, from sales leaders, not so much the service leaders, because they actually usually don't care as much.

Frank: [00:03:19] That, and then they often, you know what, here's the, here's the problem and I think we mentioned this on another episode is the service teams often get delegated to and relegated they're delegated and relegated. And instead what should be happening in RevOps is the service team should take a prominent role and they should take a leading role in defining what the heck we're aiming for in the marketplace and the kind of differentiation we're trying to bring to life, because who knows that better than the service.

Joe: [00:03:51] Okay. You're jumping the gun. 

Frank: [00:03:52] Sorry about that. 

Joe: [00:03:53] That's okay. 

Frank: [00:03:54] But you're right on that. 

Joe: [00:03:55] We want to talk about the why, right? When we, when we bring this and present it, we need to talk about the why. So we're going to unpack that one a little bit here. Other thing is I think we need to dispel the myths and the fears. I think there's a lot of unknown about RevOps. There's a lot you can read on it. And if you haven't done either of those, or even if you have, I actually think marketing leaders, sales leaders might feel like their job is threatened by some of the concepts that come with RevOps. And the truth is it's not, and we'll get into this in a minute, but the truth is it's really not.

It actually comes along to make you successful in your job, not to take your job away from you. 

Frank: [00:04:27] Yeah. As we talked about, I think again, in another episode, I think. Marketing leaders. If they're smart, they have an opportunity to possibly the conversation around RevOps. If they're smart, because the execution of RevOps involves a lot of skills that are already on the marketing team, right?

They need to pick up a couple more skills, but the marketing team often has a lot of the skills already needed for RevOps. So the smart marketing leaders out there are going to notice that, and they're going to grab the bull by the horns and take charge. 

Joe: [00:05:00] Yeah. So you need to bring the why and you need to bring the dispelling.

I don't know if that's a word. I do that a lot. I realized listening back. I questioned my fake words a lot. I'm gonna stop questioning the question. I'm gonna say the fake word and you're going to understand me. So anyway, bring the why and dispel the fears. So, first of all, let's talk about the why that you're going to bring, why do you do RevOps Frank?

Frank: [00:05:24] Well, we talked about why, you know, when you, when I gave the definition. 

Joe: [00:05:27] Okay. That's that's where I was jumping the gun. 

Frank: [00:05:30] Right? Like the, why is that, is more revenue in growth, better than less revenue and growth, right? I mean, I think we all know the answer to that question, but along that journey, we can do it in a way that's very difficult in grinding.

Sand in the gears and tough along the way, or we can look for it ways to optimize that. So it's as smooth and efficient as possible. Well, now I'm not suggesting that RevOps is, you know, this like birds are chirping and there's harps. 

Joe: [00:06:01] Like a Disney movie. 

Frank: [00:06:02] Yeah. I'm not suggesting that. Mm, all of a sudden, a tree making your vision come to life is just easy.

But what I am saying is business is hard enough and you need to do everything you can to make it simpler, make it more efficient. That's where RevOps comes in, because if you can get everyone online and operating from the same playbook, then you're going to spend less time pointing fingers, trying to break down silos, trying to figure out, you know, what's not working.

What is working. There will already be a process in place. And so you as the executive, aren't the only one who ends up caring about this. 

Joe: [00:06:38] I want to stop you right there? Because you said getting the service teams or sorry, the different teams aligned, right. Sales and marketing teams, service teams aligned.

In my experience. I actually think a lot of them think they are, if you were really to ask them and help them unpack what that means, they'll realize they're not aligned, but I think most companies think, well, we're all marching towards the same vision. And my job is to get the leads towards that vision.

And his job is to close it and her job is to deliver it or, or whatever. They think that there is alignment. But the reality is there is not alignment around something that you've mentioned before that I think is crucial to this conversation that is, alignment around making the buyer experience. 

Frank: [00:07:17] Yes. 

Joe: [00:07:17] The hero.

It's not about making your metrics in your job and what was asked of you the hero, and then tossing that over the fence. And we've touched on that before. You know, so like to paint a really tangible picture here, it's not about being the marketing team and saying, well, I did my job cause I was supposed to get 600 new phone calls for the sales team and look, I got them. Because once you say your job's done, you've got the sales team on the other side saying, well, yeah, you, you booked calls for us, but none of them showed up. Right. So there's no alignment in what the customer experience with the buyer's journey should be. There's just alignment on, I've got a goal and I'm going to try and hit it.

Right. So rev up swoops in. And it kind of bridges each of those gaps and it brings the buyer's journey to the front of the conversation. Now, everybody is trying to win on that, not win on their own individual metrics. 

Frank: [00:08:03] Correct cause now we can apply a story to the skeleton. And so a lot of people have the skeleton, but they don't have the body to fill it in and so that story. Which is how are we different in the marketplace who we're really going to be different with how are we going to win in the marketplace? How are we going to create that transformation better than anyone else? When you start to answer those questions, then you fill in the content with those answers.

And that gives a completely different. Outcome to what you know, being aligned means. It's nice. You said it's not enough to just say, yeah, I know I got to provide a certain number of MQ Wells, and I know that number cold and sales knows how many they have to close. And they know that number cold and service knows how many they have to retain and they know that number cold. That's not enough to just know the KPIs and metrics that bubble up to the end objective. That's great. And I hope your teams know that, but that's not enough. You have to know why and how those things are going to happen. 

Joe: [00:09:09] Right. And when you have alignment, okay, I'm going to paint another picture here.

Right? So the marketing team, if they are aligned on their metrics and they are given a quota of you know, we can call it phone calls or leads in the database and they're supposed to hit that. If that's what their focus is on. You better believe that they're going to be doubling down on the channels that are converting into new contacts in the database or new phone calls, what they are not doubling down on, which they should be is putting out the right story on the right channels to attract the right people.

All they're doing is going for a head count. They're not necessarily trying to serve early on in that customer. I'm gonna call them customers, even though they're not yet early on in that customer's journey, they're not actually serving that customer's needs. They're literally just letting people in the door.

And that's, that's the subtle change that happens. And, and that's a marketing example, but the same types of things happen in sales. And maybe even in service when you're not aligned around the outcome for the customer, and you're only aligned around the outcome for you. It's very different. 

Frank: [00:10:07] It really is and I'm glad you bring this up because again, I was just talking about this in a workshop today, which is the KPIs you choose determine the behavior of your teams. 

Hmm, 

The KPIs you choose determines the behavior of your teams. So if it's just, an MQL count, we're after, well, let's get any and all MQLs.

Yeah. Right. We're doing our job. We're excited about that. We're high-fiving lead. Magnets are working wahoo, but once we fill in the story, we, we understand what we're trying to be in the world and how we're trying to be that way. And the difference we're trying to create and who we're trying to connect with.

You'll then define better KPIs. Yeah. And then you'll drive the better behavior 

Joe: [00:10:51] Because what's going to happen again, going down this, this example with marketing what's going to happen is you're going to get a lot in the door and you're going to hit your goals and you're gonna get a high five and maybe even a bonus.

That would be cool but then that contact, even if the database has to move along to the next team, to the next person, to the next experience. And there's going to be a bit of a broken experience for them. So one of two things will happen. Well, maybe one to three, one, the best case scenario is it actually was the right fit.

And they continue all the way on to become a customer and eventually a fan. But what more often than not happens is you get attrition, right? You get them coming to the database and then going cold because they weren't the right person. So you have a huge drop-off from lead to qualified lead, or from qualified lead to actual sales conversation.

That's one scenario when you're not aligned on their outcome and I think that the other scenario that happens is not only do you get that drop-off, but you sometimes get people who continue on to become a customer. And they have a bad experience because they were brought in maybe under a different story, under a different promise, under a different kind of regime.

And then they're passed to the service team who is probably delivering very well on what they know how to deliver, but it might be different than what was. Promised or at least implied early on in that customer's journey. 

Frank: [00:12:06] Which is why, you know, when I mentioned a moment ago that I believe where most organizations are missing the boat, especially B2B is, is they're not involving their service service teams enough in the strategic planning.

They're not involving them and having the strategic team or the service team drive the decisions around. Who they're going after what they're going to sell them, the kind of differentiation they can create, where they can Excel, what they're in the best in the world at, because if they did sales would stop selling deals that the service team says they have to clean up.

Joe: [00:12:40] Yeah. I can't tell you how many, kickoff calls I've been on with a team that is trying to install rev ops and they've got the marketing leader and the sales leader and the service leader there. And I say, okay guys, tell me what the customer experience is and tell me what it is you deliver. And how many times, sometimes a lot of times the marketer will actually, or the salesperson might take that and run with it.

They usually the more vocal, more, a type personalities we work with and they start telling the story only to be interrupted by the service team that says, well, it actually doesn't really happen that way.

Frank: [00:13:12] It doesn't really do that. 

Joe: [00:13:14] Then it's like, well, but that's what we're saying happens. And yeah, we know, but like, We always have to reset that expectation.

And so that's actually a very common conversation that we hear in B2B world. Um, when you get them all in the room and they actually start talking about what happens, they don't actually even all know or agree on what happens with that customer as it moves through. 

Frank: [00:13:32] Yeah. And I think that's a by-product of a couple of things.

One, I think salespeople and sales teams are idealistic. I think so many sales teams today have leveled up there. I think a lot of teams don't fit that old stereotype of just, you know, wham, bam, you know, slam dunk, it kind of thing. I think there are a lot of people trying to be valuable and consultative, but salespeople and growth driven people idealistic.

Joe: [00:14:00] Yeah. 

Frank: [00:14:00] And so, you sell the idealistic vision because those are the conversations you've been having internally about your area of the world. And so your delivery team may not be delivering to an idealistic level. So you get that, you get that breakdown. And so sales teams are idealistic. There's no process for them to be aligned, therefore your buyer pays for it. 

Joe: [00:14:23] Yeah. So that's the why, if you go to your team and say, we're going to start doing rev ops, you got to tell them the why. And the why is because part of it is the why that you already have, which is because we want more growth. We want more revenue. That is the why. 

Frank: [00:14:36] Well, hopefully your organization has a really great vision defined and then backed around some sort of purpose and passion, simple things to define. These are simple. We're not talking about, you know, big manifestos. We're just talking as long as the organization understands their purpose and their passion and what that will manifest into through the vision statement, then connect it to that! 

Joe: [00:15:01] Which most do I would say, and not all understand how they're differentiated.

Frank: [00:15:05] Correct. 

Joe: [00:15:06] But most do know what. At least that part, 

Frank: [00:15:08] But I would suggest that I, while most have it, I think most haven't thought deep enough about it. Those are very simple words. Very few words that if you think deep enough about them, they can move mountains. I know you've probably heard my story. Maybe I've given the story on the man that was, going through the canals and visiting different towns.

Have you heard that story? Yeah. Yeah. And he asked one group of workers, what are you doing? Uh, they were, they were all working on this building and the first group says, Oh, can't you tell we're moving brick. He goes to the next group of workers, still on the same project, doing the same work.

They're doing the same work, but they were like moving much faster. And so he's like, Hey, what are you guys doing? And they say, well, we're moving bricks. And the boss says, you know, for every barrel full, we, we, you know, transport, we get, you know, X amount, we get a little bonus. So they were moving faster with some enthusiasm.

And then he noticed the third group was working. Feverously even faster than that second group. And so he asked them, what are you guys doing? And they said, we're building a cathedral. And so that's the difference. We're talking about that, your vision, your purpose, your passion, they have to be deep enough.

And, and when they're deep enough, then what you do when you do things like rev ops and you did like, okay, what's, what's, what's, you know, Sally up to now with her wild, crazy idea. And what are we doing? You can connect it to those things that have meaning in your organization. 

Joe: [00:16:38] Yeah. And just that little lens change actually makes a world of difference in some of the output in terms of how far  and how fast you will go. Yeah. Right. So that's why you need to bring the why to your team and let them know that it's not just about revenue and growth. It's about a new lens on revenue and growth. And that lens is through the success of the customer. Yeah. The customer, again, not always being cutter right now, but they will be eventually.

So they start as a visitor. They go to a lead, a qualified, an opportunity, they hit customer and it doesn't stop there. They got to become a fan. And so everybody got to, got to know. That's that's to know, to know. I say that all the time, everybody has to know what it is to be a fan. And how, how do they get there? And if everybody knows that, then you know, they start to move more feverously cause they're building a cathedral. They're no longer just riding bricks. 

Frank: [00:17:26] Right! Exactly. And so the marketing team knows they're they're not creating MQL. They're bringing in future fans.

Joe: [00:17:32] Baby fans. 

Frank: [00:17:33] That's that's the difference. 

Joe: [00:17:36] Yeah. Okay. So the next thing you need to do is you need to spell some of the myths. I think that bringing in any change to an organization always comes with some fear because there's an unknown.

And I think this particular one hits close to home for a lot of the leaders we work with. So again, marketing sales and service leaders, because it almost comes in saying like we've got a new process and we've got a new platform and we have new people to do it. That's what we preach is process platform and people.

And I think bringing us in if I were on the other side might be a little bit scary. 

Frank: [00:18:05] Yeah. 

Joe: [00:18:05] Because I don't want a new process necessarily because the one I. Made I'm proud of. And even if I don't think it works well, I don't want someone else telling me that it's ugly. 

Frank: [00:18:13] Right, right. Because I tell you, you have an ugly baby.

Anyone ever tell you, you have an ugly baby? 

Joe: [00:18:18] Never have you seen my kids?

Frank: [00:18:20] They're gorgeous. And of course.

Second, we 

Joe: [00:18:22] talk about platform and there's a lot of, um, organizations that have been using the same platform for a long time. And even though they acknowledge the broken parts of it, they're used to it and they want it and they don't want to change it.

Uh, and the, by the way, you might not have to change it. Um, but you just need to examine that, right? Yep. And then the last part of the people we talked about, you need the right people in the right seats. And that can be scary too, because does that mean my job's on the line. Right and I think you need to dispel all that and you need to say, Nope, here's what this really means.

So let's break down a little bit, what that really means. Right. 

Frank: [00:18:52] I would say right before we jump into some of those details, helping people understand that. You're not trying to move the earth in, you know, a matter of 30 days, you're not trying to move this mountain, right. It's it's not what you're trying to accomplish.

So just with any good project planning, especially the bigger it is, the more clear and simple the plan needs to be upfront. And the communication needs to be clear. The why needs to be clear and then make sure that your initial. Milestones are easily achieved because people have to feel success and they have to, with that success, they're going to start to believe you in, in, in have more trust and faith in the process.

But I would say, you know, what was your question? Sorry. Went off on tangent. 

Joe: [00:19:42] You were going into Nirvana there. 

Frank: [00:19:45] I was. 

Joe: [00:19:45] So I didn't actually really have a question. I don't think I, I was making the point that there is a lot of fear involved when there's any change, right? Because of the process, because of the platform, because of the people, those are all things that a lot of organizations think they have dialed in enough for now.

And they actually might, but there's not always alignment. In fact, I was on a call the other day, a CEO of a company, you know, awesome, awesome company. I think they're, you know, they're, they're small to midsize and he said, Gosh, all of this stuff that we're talking about is a lot of work. I'm looking at this, this 12 month plan of everything that needs to be changed.

And he's thinking this is a lot of work. How are we going to get this done? This is overwhelming. I kind of want to shut down. And I said, well, that's why I'm here because I am a RevOps leader that will help break this down into very manageable chunks. And Oh, by the way, when we break it down and look at it, you realize there's not a lot of huge change here.

Every little chunk is just a tiny little change, right? It's a lot of what you're already doing, but now it's prioritized in a different way and you might make a little software change or you might make a little process tweak, but in a lot of cases we can reuse what's already going on. We just not only refine it, but we now expose it to all the departments.

So everybody knows what's going on. And everybody has a chance to poke a little bit at it and say, well, actually, When they get to the service level, um, this, I hear this complaint all the time. Can we just update that in your process at the marketing side so that we don't ever hear that again? That's really helpful.

That's great. 

So, you know, and then on the other side, I get comments like, well from marketers, well, we're doing all this, we're running paid campaigns and we're, we're building lead magnets and we're building, you know, forms to get new contacts on the database. And that is true that they are doing that and what RevOps does is it comes in and it says, you're already doing that. Now, just do it in this order. And actually you're kind of overdoing it, get rid of some of those, put those eight months down the line. Cause they're not going to move the needle very much right now. And you can feel successful.

You don't have to feel like you're doing 27 things at once. You just have to be doing the two right things right now. 

Right. And getting them focused on the right things. Right. Oftentimes the content you put into a plan. And when I say content here, I don't mean content in the marketing sense. I mean, the content of anything, the content of life, the content of your framework is what gets aligned.

Frank: [00:22:04] So to your point, like you may be doing a lot of things, but what if we can focus the content of those efforts, such that it naturally aligns to the next step in the process and someone you could actually do less things, but do a better job at those things. 

Joe: [00:22:25] Yeah. And it takes, I honestly think that it takes away that once they understand what RevOps can do for them.

It takes away all those fears because you've got marketers who now say, okay, I don't need to focus on 97 things I need to focus on. It's two things right now. You've got sales leaders saying, okay, I don't need to get a hundred new phone conversations. I just need to have 50 of the right once. And I know those are going to close because not only are the right calls, but now I have a very dialed in task, queue and process and script.

And I do it the same every time. And you know what I'm actually okay. That 50 go away. Cause those 50 would not have been. Good for the service team anyway. Right. If we closed them, we would have passed them off and they would have churned anyway, because they weren't good. So it actually, I think creates a lot of room to breathe.

Yeah. And, and allows you to bring in quality over the quantity. 

Frank: [00:23:14] You know the execution  you're talking about, the process of execution you're talking about. It has been heavily influenced on, you know, a process that we follow for the, for a business at large, that's a EOS the entrepreneurial operating system.

And for those of our listeners, you've probably heard us mention this book before, but if you haven't get that book, it's called traction by Gino Wickman. And in that book, the process called EOS entrepreneurial operating system emphasizes doing less. But doing the right things and doing them too, with a higher degree of quality and this way, you're pulsing more often, you're in a better rhythm.

And that's what we're talking about with revenue operations. I would suggest because opera, because revenue operations is still such a very new conversation, and I'd like to say, we're, we're leading the conversation on how you actually do it. There isn't a lot out there. And I would suggest that. The EOS rhythm process, they call it the quarterly and weekly rhythms that specifically in their whole thing is a great application to apply to your RevOps process.

Again, do less things, focus on the right things and do them to where the quality on those few things is really high, really, really high. That's the whole thing emphasis of us. And that's what we're saying here. 

Joe: [00:24:38] Yeah. And I think just to highlight a point you just made. There is a lot of talk. And I think even probably a lot of our listeners would say, yeah, I know that I know that we need to do more qualitative activities rather than quantitative.

I think where it gets a little tough is how, how do I change what I'm doing and make it more qualitative? How do I, how do I shift that? How do I turn that boat and that's not being talked a lot about in RevOps world right now, there us is a good example of where it's, it's been, you know, EOS is the only one, but there's a lot of different.systems out there to help get your business off and running in the right growth trajectory. 

Right. There's not a lot in RevOps world. There's a lot of people talking about the philosophies of rev ops, but how do you actually do it? 

Frank: [00:25:20] Well, and the other thing that's really unnerving for me as those that are talking about specifics, tactical specifics leans towards.

Just more software and leans towards, you know, just getting your software dialed in. And it speaks very little to process. Yeah. Which is that buyer's journey based experience. Right. It speaks very little to people. In fact, the only people conversation I'm hearing and most of the RevOps conversations is about whoever the RevOps champion is.

Is it the CRO is at the CMO, is it the CSO? And so, yeah, you're talking about whoever the leader is, but you're not talking about the other people that need to become part of the RevOps team, your subject matter experts, right? Your people doing the technical work, the members of your executive team who are also part of strategy, people who are doing the engagement activities, people developing content.

These are all people that need to be on the RevOps team. So you're right. I mean, it's very unnerving to see that it goes from philosophical. And then the only real tactical suggestions are around tech and software. And it's like, come on, like, software is not, software is a piece of it. That's our, what we call platform.

But man, it's just one of the many peices. 

Joe: [00:26:34] Well, it's certainly not going to drive itself. It might be whizzbang in terms of features, but you need to have a process. That's working within that machine to make it work properly. 

Frank: [00:26:43] Yeah. I often say when it comes to this stuff, it's like, you know, kick ass Winnebago, right?

Like it just sits in the driveway. It's not doing much for you. 

Joe: [00:26:54] Well, the question today was how do we foster buy-in? How do we get buy-in from our leaders in the marketing service and, sales roles. If we're ready to start implementing RevOps, the answer is you got to tell them the why, why are you doing it?

The other answer is you got us help to get rid of some of the fears that they probably inevitably have about it. We started talking about the tactics of how to do it, you know, getting out of the heady conversation and into the roll up your sleeves conversation. Obviously we didn't go into that on this call, not a call.

On this show, we have all the resources you would ever need to actually make that happen. So you really need to check out, you know, everything that we have to offer for you guys. 

Frank: [00:27:35] Yeah. Buildingyourdigitalutopia.com is a great resource for you. But the one thing I would add there is a, and we just touched on it, which is that 90 day rhythm.

And then that weekly rhythm, if you can get into a rhythm, that's going to help make your rev ups. More successful in the early stages than anything else, because you're not looking for in the early stages. You're not looking for like, Hey work, we're doing it. Did revenue increase by 50%. That's not what you're looking for in the early stages, you know, first quarter or two, what you're looking to do actually is.

Get your foundation in play from a technical and strategy perspective, and then just work together, get in the habit of working together as a RevOps team and get that habit going. Because if you can get that habit going in that rhythm, that just will allow you to have your efforts snowball on themselves.

But that's the most important part actually is just setting the expectation like, hey guys, you know, we're not asking for. You know, unrealistic increases to your output. We just want to work better together as a team, let's work better together as a team, let's make our vision come to life faster and so that's really what we're talking about is, you know, get the why down and then set realistic expectations for how you roll out in and the maturation of the program.

It's not, you know, zero to 90 step on the gas and you're going right. There's an acceleration. Okay. 

That's all the time we have for this topic today. Again, if you'd like to learn a bit more about the strategy and the framework that Joe and I have been talking about, as it relates to rev ops, again, go to BuildingYourDigitalUtopia.com.

Check out the resources that we have there. We also have links to the other episodes. The other 28, since this is episode 29. We'd love for you to check those out. Tell us what you think. Give us a like a follower share and we'll see you next time on the Digital Utopia Podcast.